i don't listen to hip hop/rap for the lyrics.  it's just that the music is more dance-able and I generally find the beats pretty good.  heavy metal and rock lack a lot of the "dance" element.

the artist i referenced rap about real life....not fictional gangter shit.  I've been spinning records and making beats (mostly hip-hop, jungle, and drum-n-bass) for over 10 years and trust me they are real instruments...  Here is a verse from Atmosphere so you all know what I'm talking about

I used to know this woman who had the most beautiful
tattoos on the top sides of both of her hands
she was forty three years old and as far as I know
had never yet been with a man
its not that she wasn't attractive she was beatiful
but its the way that she interacted
she was aggressively passive to the point where she
would of intimidated any mitt that ever tried to catch her
on the right hand she had a tattoo of a nude girl
she claimed it is what God resembled
but on the left she had a mirrored image of the same female
and this one she explained looked like the devil
I remember once watching her touch her own breasts
how the tattoos smiled as they stared down her stomach
as if anticipating would they be allowed to caress
the sweet flower that they both seemed to hunger (sweet flower)
now maybe I was high but it felt so right
heaven and hell both take to this womans womb
it didn't make sense how she could commence
touching herself with me wide awake in the same room
now if I've learned anything in my years (my years)
I learned I no longer believe in surprise (in surprise)
but what happened next damn near stole my tears
the tattoos came alive right in front of my eyes
they both slowly stood up and climbed off her hands
and showed me why she never took some time with a man
they climbed deep inside of this woman's garden
she closed her eyes and she gently bit her bottom lip
I stepped I left and I don't regret leaving
and I'll never forget all the things I saw that evening
a glimpse of religion a piece of coming closer
to understanding more about what intrigues me most
I didn't get turned on I just got turned
I wasn't as aroused as I was concerned
for each one of em I've hurt
and every time I've been burned
I've got a lot to teach but even more to learn
so now I keep my eyes open hoping to take in all I can
about Woman taking in all she can
and for as long as I breath i'll save a seat in my memory
for that woman with the tattooed hands

Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothin' to fuck with.

I use to be one of those people that would say "Rap is crap, dur dur dur," but then I realized I wasn't listening well enough to pass judgement, and I was just being a music brat.  Groups and/or individuals like the Fugees, Talib Kweli, Wu-Tang, Dr. Dre, Mos Def, Public Enemy, and The Roots (more so Black Thought) really sparked my interest.  I listen to a lot more than that, but those are mostly my favorites.

Mainstream rap is just like any other mainstream genre.  It adheres to the formula that sells the most records.  The "bang bang slap a ho gangsta" stuff that is on the radio is what sells, so of course it is the type of hip-hop that is pushed.

Hip-hop gets a lot of respect, just not here because most of us are probably white, angsty nerds who listen to awful techno, industrial metal or stuff like Snow Patrol, or maybe live in a country lacking the base of hip hop that the US enjoys. 

I always find it funny that people are more than willing to bash "black" music, when "black" music has been the foundation of everything we listen to, aside from Polka.  Hip hop was the first music to use samples and looping beats, which turned into techno and other technology based music.  Without old blues and field songs, we wouldn't have rock, jazz, punk, ska, metal, alternative, techno, avant garde blah blah blah.  The list goes on.  Music has a long and complicated history and it's all connected.  Everything is worth giving a listen... well, everything not on your local top ten radio station.

Edit - If you have time, here's an hour long documentary about hip-hop.  It's pretty interesting.  I won't go into too much, but there are a lot of insightful interviews:  HipHop: Beyond Beats & Rhymes.

thats right the same record companies that told motley crue and the like to act like your worship the devil and killed your own mother tell main steam rappers how to act...

This may be a bit of a generalization, but it seems most rap talks about getting bitches, getting a lot of bling and a big house, talking ghetto style, and doing other L.A. black gangster stuff.

Listened to a few Eminem songs though, he's pretty good.

Well, it is coercive.  Artistic liscence is very limited in the modern music industry.  That isn't a totally bad thing in my opinion, as this industry strong arming inadvertently gave birth to genres like hiphop, punk, "indie," etc.  Not too far from where I work, there is a certain hardcore band that made it as big as a hardcore band can.  They are currently under contract to play and record only that type of music.  They cannot use the resources of the record company for any other genre.

It's kinda funny because were I live rock or metal fans are considered as "uncool and strange satan worshippers" half of the time and rock never gets any kind of respect (at all), but everyone else loves hip-hop, R&B, and all the stupid mainstream rap about "bitches and bling".

Maybe I should move to America just for the music ...

General-JWJ

I'm loving ICP's new album Bang Pow Boom, my favorite track has got to Imma Kill U, it's got that old school feel to it. Just listen to it for yourself.

@GeneralEtrius:Oh really, well Rock and Metal is just a bunch of white guys screaming and shouting stuff that makes no sense.

Seriously, I hate Rock and Metal, but I used to think it was cool, until I realized it was just screaming and shouting.

Could any of you Hip-Hop experts tell me, a alternative progressive rock boy, which genre Muse's Undisclosed Desire (it's from their brand new album) belongs to. It isn't rock, no guitar, i would guess it's hiphop but i'm far from an expert.

off-topic: yeah i'm a big muse fan 

To anyone who's knocking rap listen to just about any track off of Atmosphere's "God Loves Ugly" or "Lucy Ford". The majority of the lyrics are somewhat abstract and you may hear a lyric differently than you did that morning.  Also listen to "Always Coming Back Home to You", off of Seven's Travels.

um... So the white gangster stuff is cool? His lyrical ability sets him apart from a lot of rappers, but liking him but not rap music isn't the most intelligent thing I've heard all week...

For the meandering crowd, most Rap is horrible shit that doesn't deserve radio play, but I should be more specific by saying that most Music is horrible shit that doesn't deserve radio play. A lot of rock sucks. Sucks hard. I can't tell you how many records I've bought because I kind of liked one song, only to be pissed at the rest of the album's ear torture. Metallica has a thousand songs, and seven good ones.

Every genre has it's good and bad. The qualifier Rap is just as large as the qualifier Rock. Meaning, that Rock music is Edwin McCain to Slipknot. If you can't find something pleasing in there, you're trying not to find it. But, usually the people with the loudest opinions against a type of music are the most ignorant of music in general, and aren't worth the breath wasted trying to enlighten them.

I agree with you right there.

Rock sucks major cock.

Hey that rhymed.

maybe thats because it doesnt deserve any respect? its a stupid, morally reprehensible, flop of a music style

i mean, you get these 'authentic' rappers from the ghetto romanticising violence, drugs, growing up in a slum, and how fantastic their lives are with all their money, 'bitches and hoes' and super cars, spouting racist comments and promoting reckless and bad behaviour by the populace that are entertained by the music and videos.

you know how many people i know who pretend to be like rappers because they think its cool? its not. and the sooner off people realise it, the better off society will be

Music is like candy. You throw out the "wrappers" first.

Its good to know someone here knows of Minneapolis' finest......